So you do not think he is a criminal at all?
Or is it the semantics you disagree with?
(and i ask that with respect, which is hard to tell on a comp screen)
If this guy is convicted of a crime, then he's a criminal in that sense.
And, if what we're talking about here is only whether he broke a just law if he solicited sex from this posing police officer with this imaginary girl, then, yes, I think he is not a criminal. That is my honest answer. It is not to say I'm not disgusted by what he's accused of hoping to do; it's simply my stance on the legal aspects of it.
Governments are instituted among us to secure our unalienable rights. Governments fail us all when they misallocate resources to pursuing the ether instead of the concrete.
(Also, thanks for the parenthesis on respect. It's good to know. I hope it's clear that all my posts here are also presented with basic human respect for all in this conversation. :))
I think what happens is laws are inanimate things where as humans all bring something different to the table.
When I was 11 there was a man at a playground that tried to molest me and tried to get my friend to bring her 7 year old sister to the ditch he crouched in, naked.
He got away
about 3 months later, he was caught bending over and his pants were split. I had to identify him. It was terrifying. I had a couple of more attempts between the age of 11 and 13, one by a stepfather.
So I bring my own perspective to the situation and case.
Something else I wish is that kids were more aware of the less overt ways in which someone might violate them sexually.
From quite an early age, my parents taught me to be wary of strangers in general; they taught me various methods of dealing with those who wanted me to go away with them, &c. When I was 9 or 10 (why not years earlier?), we learned in school about physical and sexual abuse. (I remember this video of a creepy guy who gets a girl to come help him find his lost dog, and then he sets her on his kitchen counter and, because it's such a hot day, starts unbuttoning her shirt 'for her'.) During those lessons, some kids talked of flashers at neighborhood playgrounds; and I had to share the story of a girl (about 8 years old, I think) I knew, who, walking home from the bus stop, was approached by a man in a car with his window down, who wanted her to touch his (exposed) penis—and then, for reasons that I don't remember, he drove away, but not before she saw and remembered his license-plate number, which she then reported to her mother, so that the man was caught. Anyway, I remember taking from these things the idea that non-sexual physical abuse was shaking you violently (so that you might get a concussion) and that a good example of sexual abuse was someone wanting to take pictures of you in your swimsuit or underwear.
But I wish someone had given me some kind of information about other (e.g., psychological) forms of sexual abuse. I feel I was mistreated sexually by someone in my family for many years. Even now, just the other day, when I'm approaching 30 (gasp!), when this person pointed out a little blemish or wound on my elbow and touched it, I said, somewhat forcefully, that I was already aware of what was on my elbow and that I didn't need this person inspecting or touching my body. Rarely do I look this person in the eyes—apparently because that's some kind of window into my soul and that's one thing I can still at least try to keep this person from prying into, even though this person has dug into so much else of my life, leaving me feeling violated.
Why am I writing about this? I don't know. ...
Anyway, in the end, I just see these stings as doubly gross: they unfairly treat the perpetrators of the victimless crimes, and they are a detour from dealing directly with the real people who are, or may end up being, victims and the ones who abuse them.
(Oh. Just for the sake of novelty, I'll point out that the "this person" in my life is female.)
yes, my friend and i were a victim of the guy wanting directions while holding his penis in his hands. Ugh. It is scary how many there are out there.
I am sorry you had that happen to you. I am sorry it has affected you. People just don't realise children are like little canvases just waiting to be painted on... and the dark spots last just as long as the bright.
Would you think that the female who did that to you committed a crime ? I think she did, but I am not sure there is an actual law against it. I think, again, that since we all have such different formative things happen to us we may react differently to, and consider different situations as, alleged crimes.
Thanks for sharing that. I feel honoured that you felt comfy telling me.
Oh, yeah. There are definitely laws against what she did. That said, I'm not sure what the typical legal punishments would've done, in terms of making the world overall better or worse.
As a reply to this post in general, I listed several things about this issue that I am against. One of them is "sexually abusing anyone". This most definitely applies to prisoners, too, including those who are in prison for sexually abusing someone. Perpetuating the cycle is, in case it isn't obvious to some here, ... perpetuating the cycle. It has to stop somewhere. Can't it at least stop in prisons, the justice system, which is where it's meant to stop? Sexual abuse is not stopped by advocating sexual abuse.
... Most abusers, sexual or otherwise, were themselves abused. And the hardest prisons are probably also the ones with the highest recidivism rates. ...
Comments advocating that this guy be abused or mutilated: they sicken me. While there may be differences—in the facts (1) that he's an adult, whereas his victims or imaginary victims were or would have been young children, and (2) the children he abused, or would have abused, presumably were not, or would not have been, abused as punishment for doing something bad—the fact is that abuse is abuse, mutilation is mutilation, and advocates of doing those things to this guy are advocates of abuse and mutilation.
It's ironic to me that, on the one hand, we have someone apparently hoping to do sexual things with a five-year-old and talking about being "always gentle and loving" and advocating "no damage ever; no rough stuff ever ever", while, on the other hand, we have people advocating genital mutilation, physical abuse, sexual abuse, and reactionary state-controlled murder that isn't done to prevent any immediate harm that can't be prevented by any other means.
I'm not saying that he was right that his actions would cause no damage, physical and/or psychological, to a real girl; but, still, there's a big difference between someone advocating gentleness and someone else promoting years of physical, sexual, and psychological torture in a cage while the government looks on.
Well, no, it's not so much ironic as it is something that makes me angry, sad, and sick.
well, if you notice i did not say any of the above...
just he need to be put away for a long time, which included counseling and treatment.
i know most abusers were abused.
i was abused horridly... horridly... and i am very non abusive. I just don't automatically accept that as a free walk for doing something wrong. I just don't. I could run amok and blame it on my alcoholic mother and abusive stepfather but I don't. I would never want anyone to feel the way I felt or hurt the way I did.
Yes, I know you didn't say those things. :)
I just chose my reply to you as a place to elaborate on one of the points I'd made in response to the words of several others here.
Also, although I may not have put it clearly, my little paragraph about abused abusers and recidivism wasn't to suggest an excuse for abusers. Rather, it was to suggest that putting people in abusive prisons will, in general, make them even more abusive.
I do read your posts pretty carefully, and I tend not to read things into others' writings. Still, I could be more explicit when I'm writing something to someone that may make it look as if I think that person said something he or she didn't actually say. :)
i think we are nearly on the same page, which is nice as we can have differing views and can still discuss and be civil!
i hope you have a great weekend!
Same to you!
I'm spending mine mostly on knitting matching pairs of hats and scarves for two wonderful friends. :)
I really need to learn how to knit one of these days.
Completely off topic. You just reminded me.
Kind of nice to get off topic for a bit, eh? :)
And I still have to learn the purl stitch.
No innocent people should.
I really feel that the abusers need extensive punishment personally, and if that includes violence, leading up to and including death, so f'ng be it.
Not a popular opinion, but oh well.
There's not such thing as gently raping a five year old. Not possible.