2008-02-06 06:14 pm (UTC)
Torn. Sometimes, I see it as an egregious form of punishment, especially since there are innocent people convicted of heinous crimes. Other times, I feel it is fitting for the crime, like stabbing a spouse to death (stabs x 100).
I'm a fence-sitter!
I'm a fence-sitter too. ;)
Pro, but with lots of Due Diligence - DNA, good lawyers, etc - and then, once the various appeals have been exhausted, a single bullet in the back of the head. =)
That'd be a lot cheaper.
I think it's insane how expensive it is.
Uuuugh i'm so torn. Generally against, though.
I'm quite happy on my fence, entertaining arguments from both sides. ;)
*nod* What are your reservations, if you're comfortable sharing?
totally against, but off topic. a guy i know had the best response for what he would like to happen to him after death. he would like to be loaded into a catapult flung through the air and used as target practice by his friends.
Oooh. *shudder* The idea of shooting a friend.. or being shot even after death doesn't thrill me. lol.
i think that when people argue for or against it, they mix the moral arguments with the 'things wrong with the system' argument.
in my opinion, the moral argument against it is completely relative, even though most americans are religious and find something wrong with killing someone, i think more americans enjoy seeing some bastard who raped a child burn. i know that i do. and i am perfectly willing to admit it.
on the other hand. there are problems with this 'justice' system. prosecuters wanting to make money instead of see the truth come out. so, innocent people are put on the death row when evidence was tampered with or discarded or what have you. in that sense, it is dangerous to gamble someone's life on this flawed system. especially with new DNA evidence coming out to redeem innocent people.
the moral argument kinda makes me sound like a heartless bitch. but i can easily put myself in some parent's shoes who lost their little girl to a killer. and that is weak of me, to fall for the anecdotal evidence. but it feels good, vengence.
i wish that it weren't so gray all the time though. guilty vs innocent... and the corruption in the legal system. it isn't the death penalty that needs to be fixed, it is the legal system that needs to be more efficient honest, and less about getting paid and more about giving real justice.
so, that is my opinion about the death penalty.
I think that is a very good post. Being able to separate the idea of the death penalty from the system which is currently being utilised to bring it about is a key consideration when making this kind of argument.
I'm unequivocably against the death penalty, i find it odd that the punishment for killing someone is to be killed, logically it doesn't sustain itself. Morally i think it's simple, it's never ok to kill someone. I realise it's a fairly unattainable ideological goal to convince the rest of the world that morally any kind of murder, with or without 'justification', is wrong. That doesn't mean however we shouldn't make a point of not participating in state sanctioned murder, no one has the right to kill, irrespective of how much power they hold. It doesn't matter what one person may have done, we have the facilities to lock them up forever if rehabiliation isn't an option, but in most cases it is an option that is simply disregarded. As to applying the death penalty to people with clear mental disorders i find that appauling, would you execute a child who commited an awful crime?
Ideally no one would kill anyone. If that were the case we wouldn't have this problem.
What would you have happen to people who ignored that ideal, and went ahead and killed other people?
In regards to jailing someone for life, as far as I'm aware, Australia doesn't have the death penalty and can lock people away for life, but what is the meaning in that? People can't do anything in jail except waste resources, particularly when they will never be released to have a chance to be better people in society.
2008-02-06 07:26 pm (UTC)
Kill'em all; let God sort them out. ;)
What happens to the souls of those that have killed an innocent person, then? Be it state sanctioned or otherwise?
the whole 'you killed someone and that's wrong so we're gonna kill you' thing really bothers me.
besides, isn't it far suckier to spend the rest of your life in jail? seems to me like killing them is letting them off easy.
i'm completely against the death penalty for several reasons.
1) there are far too many mistakes made with capital punishment-innocent people are killed, those who administer the drugs are under-trained, and vets won't even use those drugs on animals because we don't know how much pain the could potentially cause.
2) once you're dead, you're dead. sure, the criminal loses their life, but that's it. they never have to think about what they did, never have to deal with life in prison, never have to deal with guilt. sure, there are criminals who will never feel guilty for their crimes, but i think that life in solitary confinement without chance of parole is a far better punishment than death. lock the sick bastards up with their demons, don't just give them the easy way out.
3) it's completely hypocritical. our laws basically say that purposefully taking the life of another is a crime. we're going against our own beliefs. would you teach a child not to touch a hot stove by burning their hands? everyone knows that there is a death penalty, and yet hundreds of people are murdered every day. it obviously doesn't function as a crime deterrent. what's the point?
I see all of your points. I'm still a fence-sitter on the issue, but how do you feel about the way that prisoners are treated? Almost like they're being rewarded for murdering someone. Provided a gym, computers and internet, big screen tv's, cable, game rooms, etc?
I had read a feature peice on the chaplin at texas's "the walls" prison. I believ thats in texas. But in any event the chaplin had prisided over the most deaths than any other to date, and he noted that very often these men, who's been waitng years and years were changed men, and it seemed that they were being given a steep sentance for something that was most likely a crime of passion. this wasn't always the case though. All that being said I think the death penalty should be hard to inact than it is right now. Really save it for the psychos, not the people who did something terrible in a moment f rage an confusion. i'm not saying what they did is any less terible, but at least they're cabable of living the rest of their lives in confinement having to know they commited a crime, and suffer for that
I agree. Crimes of passion are terrible, and awful, and cause a lot of pain for a lot of people, but pre-meditated murder is definitely a lot scarier, and should be punished more harshly.
I'm generally for it. There are plenty people who the gov't knew were insane, and let them out of jail after a few years, and then they went and killed again. I thought the Ron White clip was funny when he was talking about the death penalty in Texas and said, "Yes, it is our policy. If you kill someone, we will kill you right back." But like others have said, as long as they are sure they have the right person with hard evidence and all.
The child molesters who are repeat offenders, and whose crimes become more and more violent until a child dies are the ones that really jar me. It's like we're giving them a free pass. It's horrible.
I feel sort of mean for saying this, but... I don't think it's harsh enough.
I think people who have committed crimes bad enough to warrant the death penalty should be forced to live out miserable lives so they can properly regret their mistake, instead of offered release from any guilt they might ever feel.
I can see that. If they were actually sent to what I consider a prison, I think that argument is stronger. I don't see a prison as a resort with computers, cable tv, gyms, and all of these amenities that many good people don't have at home, and it's provided to criminals and it makes me sick.
capital punishment is characteristic of a sick or immature society
I can see that point too, absolutely.
I am against it. In Australia we don't have the death penilty and I would be uncomfortable with it. Yes, people who commit terrible crimes should be punished, but I don't think the death penilty is the way to go....wish I could offer a better solution though! And I often think that these crimes stem from previous problems, often from childhood, such as abuse and poverty. So perhaps if the government was more willing to takle these problems than spend hundreds of thousands of dollars keeping people in jails, there might be less crimes? Just a thought.
I think the big issue is the repeat offenders. I'm not sure rapists or child molesters should ever be let back into society personally..
There's an intensely human part of me that wants to see people suffer for the heinous crimes they submit. I won't lie about that. But there's a humanitarian part of me that says that an eye for an eye is a little Old Testament era for me. Then there's the logical part that says that we simply have no way of verifying that the person we have is the person who did it 100% of the time, and I would much, much rather see a murderer locked away to rot for 80 years than to find out that we put an innocent person to death. Err on the side of caution. Which is why I'm sort of a death penalty activist these days.
How can we even remotely claim the high ground if we say, "You killed someone. That was bad. But now we're going to kill you and it's ok"?
I just hate how people who go to jail get all of this special treatment with computers and internet and big screen tv's with HBO... I don't know. it stresses me out to think of criminals being provided with all of these rewards.
2008-02-07 12:20 am (UTC)
death penalty is no good. why?
because we can't trust the government to make sound decisions.
There's definitely a point to that argument too.
Trying to explain that Capital "Punishment" is a misnomer, as it isn't really a punishment, to my 8th grade History class(right after I got back from homeschooling) got me laughed at and shut me up for about 3 1/2 years in class.
We have no right to take someone's life. Murder is a crime that no penalty can fit, just like all the laws in set in the 10 commandments. If we are playing checkers and I take two turns, that's wrong, but if you then take two turns, we're even.
Now if I sleep with your spouse, you sleeping with my spouse won't fix anything, only make two guilty parties. The death penalty is the same. You cannot punish someone for the highest of human crimes.
What do you propose that we do?
I personally don't believe in killing, for any reason. I know that I could never, ever kill someone, no matter what the circumstances. Therefore, I don't think I could ever ask someone else to do it for me. (Which is what I see the death penalty as: asking the state to take care of some psychopath so you don't have to). I think if anyone agrees with the death penalty, they must also be willing to be the one who goes in and gives them the injections/flips the switch.
I can see that argument too. How do you think criminals that right now would be executed be dealt with instead?
I don't really like it, but it is well deserved for some people, (like Ted Bundy).
I can definitely see both arguments.
yo, against it. staunchly a few years ago. like five or six. now, not so sure. kind of like pro-life/pro-choice. generally, I don't like that the US is one of the only countries to do it anymore. I don't like that your government might kill you. I feel like it should be trying to do the opposite. And I think it would be better to try to help everyone. At the same time, I think jail time is too silly a punishment, though sometimes very helpful as a first step in trying to help people who have trouble with the restraints of the system. I think somewhere in between. It's like in school. Suspension is stupid because it's basically a break from that which is constricting you. People need to learn to deal responsibly with the system or else get out of it for themselves. How about just send people to Alaska with no supplies and let them fend for theselves? Or, if we're going to kill people, what's wrong with flogging them? I don't know. Such a hard question.
That's a good point actually, about the schools. How was suspending a person ever meant to make them behave better, where suspending them essentially gives them a break from the place that's confining you? I understand from the point of view of making it easier for the school, however it always seemed like a "bonus" for the person being suspended. You don't want to go to school? Misbehave and be rewarded.
As for flogging? OH, That's Against Humanitarian Rights. Despite the fact that children are sometimes smacked for doing the wrong thing, adults deserve better?
Humanitarian rights are the same reason we actually sterilise the needle before giving someone a lethal injection. More humane that way.
Well they certainly get time enough for a million appeals and new evidence, so I guess I'm for it, as it may save us some small amount of tax dollars, and the crime warrants it. By warrants I mean really heinous, non-reformable stuff (see Cheshire, CT murders this past year)
I wish that it did save us money. Unfortunately right now its more expensive to execute then to keep the prisoners alive.
Holy crap!! You have the greatest icon known to man!!!!
Thank you! ;) All yours if'n you want it.
2008-03-28 10:57 pm (UTC)
Нужен дельный совет
У меня такой вопрос,кто что интересное подскажет буду признателен.
Мы с друзьями собираемся поехать в круиз по просторам России и ближнего зарубежья месяца на два на своих машинах,но не как не можем согласовать маршрут,если у кого уже был опыт такого путешествия,может,что посоветуете.Девчонок с собой не берем,думаем,что во все городах России с этим не будет проблем,если у кого будут рекомендации и в вопросе отдыха с девушками тоже буду признателен.
С уважением Сеньчик